Hi all!


I have been thinking about the following passage in the light other ones and I would like to know what are your thoughts?

Mt.5:8 "Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God."

Does this mean that God will make Himself visible to us or does it mean that we will be granted spiritual eyes (in our new bodies) that are able to see the invisible?


I know that there are instances in the OT where God manifested Himself to people such as Abraham, but does Mt.5:8 mean much more than that, because the following passages say quite a bit about God in relation to being seen.

Do the following passages refer to the natural realm only (i.e. that God chooses to be invisible) or is it that God is totally invisible to any eye? Or is it being said in the same way as Jn.14:9 "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father"?



Here are a few others:




Col.1:15 "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:"



1 Tm.1:17 "Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen."



Hb.11:27 "By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible."



Look forward to your replies (I’m sure that this will be a good one for Bro’s Parish & Steve!)



God bless

PaulB

Great questions Paul, here are a few more verses to ponder...

No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." - John 1:18

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." - John 4:24

Hi Bro Parish…..I knew that this one would be to enticing for you to resist!
(just waiting to see how long Bro Steve can hold out!)

Here is another one that really throws a spanner in the works!

Mt.18:10 “Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.”

Could it be that God is only invisible to mankind/the natural realm or is there something deeper to all of this?

Thanks for joining in Bro Parish!

God bless

PaulB

Great question, I will try and study this further.
Yes, I think that particular verse is saying that their angels behold the face of the Father. However if you wanted to project the concept of seeing God in the afterlife, there are others; for example I suppose you could use this passage from Job...

"And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me." - Job 19:26-27

Still, unless someone can point me to a verse which states clearly that the invisible spirit nature of God somehow changes after we get to heaven, I would have to suggest that maybe God stays invisible, and it's at least possible that anytime God reveals Himself to men (as a man) it has always been in the image of Christ (Gen. 12:7, Gen. 18:1-33, etc.). This can be studied further under the heading of Theophany, Christophany, etc.

We know the Mormons went astray with their teaching about Joseph Smith claiming to see God.

We also know the various appearances in the Old Testament are generally as a man; for example Jacob wrestled with God (Genesis 32:30) and Moses also saw God's feet, (Exod. 24:10) -- but it's not always as a man, for example Moses also saw a representation of God as a fire (Exod. 3, Heb. 12:29).

But since we know for sure that "no man hath seen God at any time," (John 1:18) and we know that God told Moses, "Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live," (Exod. 33:20), then I have to suspect that the only face of God men will ever see and understand is the face of Jesus; because it seems that to see the face of God the Father means certain death! Bible skeptics love to create paradoxes out of this type of thing, but it seems to me that Jesus is all we need to see of our infinite God, and maybe all our finite minds can handle. This squares perfectly with John 14:8-9. when Jesus told Philip...

"Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?"

Sorry for the long-winded reply...
Going deeper now... I have not studied all this out but it's interesting...

The Bible also indicates that our Lord currently dwells in a light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see (1 Tim. 6:16).

I suspect there is also something to be said for the GLORY of God, and when God is moving among men in this glorious state. Now it may be that the FACE of God in His glory are somehow more deadly than the rest of His shape, and perhaps a man can only see part of God and still live, for we have this peculiar passage in Exodus, when God told Moses...

"And it shall come to pass, while my GLORY passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by: And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my FACE shall not be seen." Exod. 33:22-23

That passage reminds me of another verse in the New Testament:
"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose FACE the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them." Rev. 20:11

The verse in Matthew you cited above also talks about angels beholding God's face.

At any rate, I am not a theologian or expert; I am just thankful today for the Lord Jesus, who became flesh for us; perhaps He is the only way we can withstand the true glory of God...
"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth." - John 1:14

I hope this invites more discussion, as I say I have not studied it in detail...

Really good thoughts there, Bro. Parrish.


Here is my take from a doctrinal viewpoint:

Note v. 3 &10 - kingdom of Heaven. I take this passage doctrinally as pertaining to the Tribulation saint going into the earthly kingdom of Christ, and could also apply to the millenial saint.

Millenial Saint - Compare with the verse later in the chapter - v. 29 "And if thy right eye offend thee pluck it out...and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

Tribulation saint - Hebrews 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

At the Second Coming of Christ, when He returns to the earth to establish His Kingdom (Rev. 19), every eye shall see Him, but MOST of those people will be consumed, and sent to Hell. Only those who are "pure in heart" will see Him and live on into the Millenial Kingdom and then into eternity.



As far as making application for Church Saints today, we could say that the Lord knows the thoughts and intents of the heart, and only accepts the prayers of the penitent. In other words, one cannot play games with God. The Pharisees appeared clean on the outside, but their hearts were not pure. They saw the Lord, but they didn't KNOW the Lord. Many religious people today have a form of godliness, but because of the impurity of their heart, cannot see God for who He really is. They are headed to Hell.

In Christ,

I found this thread to be very interesting.
There is so much I don't understand about the Bible, I really wish I knew more...