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 Post subject: Re: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:41 pm 

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What? Where did that come from? A nation that creates a law that allows 70 million babies to be murdered, cannot be considered a Christian nation...what's hard to understand about that.


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 Post subject: Re: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:53 pm 
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Jon wrote:
What? Where did that come from? A nation that creates a law that allows 70 million babies to be murdered, cannot be considered a Christian nation...what's hard to understand about that.
Maybe you need to read threads that have led up to this one.

This is still a Christian nation in a way that no nation has ever been, and its only hope is Christians who care about their country and are involved. If you are not aware of what is going on presently, there is a chance to cut funding to Planned Parenthood, thanks to people with Christian values.

My question still stands. Do you care about your country, or are you doing nothing but espousing hatred for it. What's hard to understand about that?


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 Post subject: Re: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:13 pm 
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If the US is no longer a Christian nation, I think it's easy to see why when the majority, or at least many, of the professing Christians seem to be disowning it under the pretense that they are too spiritual to be involved. It's no wonder the weakening of our country and loss of patriotism coincides with the weakening of Christianity.


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 Post subject: Re: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:52 pm 
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Jon wrote:
What? Where did that come from? A nation that creates a law that allows 70 million babies to be murdered, cannot be considered a Christian nation...what's hard to understand about that.

I can see your point. It's true that abortion is still legal ( for now ) and that is a real shame. But how many people has America saved during that same time? How many millions would have died had Americans not bled and died to save them with our military presence, across Europe, Asia and other places? ( John 15:13 )

How many lives do police officers save every year? I'm sure if we only look at the bad, ( like Colin Kaepernick and the communists at Black Lives Matter ) we would conclude that cops are killing innocent people every day, but that would be ignoring a lot of good that they do every day, don't you think? :roll:

How many children does America feed today and provide medicine for on a monthly basis, not only at home but around the world? In the past year alone -- Feed the Future has helped nearly 7 million farmers and food producers all over the world. That's just one year. How many millions will those farmers save, thanks to America?

How many millions did America save from Ebola? I read the other day that America spent over $750 million to prevent 28,000 cases of that one virus from turning into millions. And that's just one virus! How many millions of people did America save there?

Remember, laws can be changed ( supreme court law on slavery was changed ). I can't go around like Noam Chomsky or Jeremiah Wright pretending America is nothing but garbage. I have to separate the corruption of certain leaders from the nation as a whole. There is a tremendous amount of good in America and we have the freedom to make it better.

To say that America is no longer a "Christian nation" is one thing, but to pretend we have nothing here worth "salvaging" and vomit out utter disdain and hatred for America and our patriots over and over like the author of this thread has done is another.

_________________
"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors." -- George Washington (Ref: A Collection, W.B. Allen, ed. 543)


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 Post subject: Re: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:09 pm 
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Jeff wrote:
Jon wrote:
Can any nation that kills 70 million babies since 1973 be considered a ' Christian nation'? I think not.
So, so you agree with Bro. Stafford that the solution is to espouse hatred for your nation and for those who serve and protect it, and for Christians who are politically involved in an effort to stop abortion?
Wow, brother Jeff. You sure dumped a load of assumptions on brother Jon. You immediately inferred that, because Jon questioned America's status as being decidedly a "Christian nation," that it means that he possesses a hatred for America and those who have served. That's a pretty gigantic assumption. It may or may not be true, I don't know what brother Jon believes, but you dumped a load on him because of the disdain you have for me and my position.

Brother Jeff, you keep raving about how wonderful it is that America affords Christians the right to share the Gospel without fear of being arrested, via the 2nd amendment, yet you don't seem to be very tolerant of fellow Christians who have opinions that differ from yours. I keep rebuking a nation as a whole and policies and social norms that I believe are anti biblical and evil. However, you seem to prefer to attack me at a person. I have not called your personal character into question, that I can recall, yet you have gone as far as to call me, as a personal and individual level: useless, cowardly and ungodly and you still have not addressed why you seem to have encouraged me to kill myself.

Jeff wrote:
What are you doing here. You're of no use to anyone, why don't you just go ahead and get to the only Kingdom you belong in?
...Cowardly Christians such as yourself...
...the most ungodly; and men like Brother Stafford...

You seem to infer all sorts of things out of preconceived notions that you have connected to my opinions. I have never said that I am superior to anyone else. I have never said that individual people cannot be saved and are unsalvageable; I said that the nation, as a whole, is beyond salvaging.

I don't hate you, brother Jeff; I love you as I love any other brother in Christ. I do, however, think that you are being a bully to people like brother Jon and myself, who dare to voice an opinion that differs from your own, and I don't find it helpful.

I have abandoned my love for America in general, as a nation, and have stopped filling my head with what I see as political and social clap-trap, that serves to divide people, stoke anger and does nothing to further the Kingdom of God. I have, instead, decided to devote myself entirely to the Great Commission and let, what I see as a godless, heathen and hedonistic country, do what it pleases. I see it like I am running through the streets of Sodom; trying to share the Gospel with as many people as possible, while fire and brimstone is hailing down around us.

I don't need a government to tell me that I have the right to share the Gospel; God has given me that right and has commanded me to do so. If I am in a place where that is safe to do, that is convenient, but I will keep sharing the Gospel if I am in a place where I might be put in jail or have my head cut off. It makes no difference to me.

All you seem to be hearing from me is that I hate a place that you love. A place that will not matter, in the end. I hate evil and godlessness and everything else God hates and I know that you hate all of those things too. I just happen to believe that I hate one more thing than you.

_________________
Sincerely and respectfully,
Brother Stafford
(1 Timothy 1:15)


“Saying that you like me, but that you do not like my religion, is like saying that you enjoy eating peaches, but that you do not care for their flavor.”


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 Post subject: Re: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:23 pm 
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Baptist1611 wrote:
I can see your point. It's true that abortion is still legal ( for now ) and that is a real shame. But how many people has America saved during that same time? How many millions would have died had Americans not bled and died to save them with our military presence, across Europe, Asia and other places? ( John 15:13 )

How many lives do police officers save every year? ...How many children does America feed today and provide medicine for on a monthly basis, not only at home but around the world? ...How many millions did America save from Ebola? I read the other day that America spent over $750 million to prevent 28,000 cases of that one virus from turning into millions. And that's just one virus! How many millions of people did America save there?


Forgive me, but it sounds as if you are attempting to justify America by saying that our good outweighs our bad. It is not only the number (60,000,000 is more accurate in the U.S.), but the fact that it is legal and approved of and embraced by our leadership and our people.

What if a German said, "Sure, Hitler killed 6 million Jews, but look at what he did for our country." Hitler and the government, police and military he led, are said to have killed 6 million people and he is said to be one of the most evil men that has ever existed. America has made it legal, and it still is today, to kill 60 million unborn babies and you just swept that number under the rug because, "but look at all the good we have done." That's like patting ourselves on the back if we freed slaves in Europe while we still owned slaves at home. "Sure, we own and beat our slaves, but look at all the other slaves we've freed."

My own parents consistently vote for candidates that openly and proudly support abortion and the rights of sodomites and they are two of the most kind and generous people I have ever known. My mother is a devout Catholic (unfortunately) and my father served as a Marine in the Korean war, yet even they are willing to support such abominable evil.

There seems to be a collective irrational belief in American goodness and a minimizing of our evil, by many, because of the false belief that our good outweighs our evil. Ask people, the lost and the thought-to-be saved, why they believe they are going to Heaven and an enormous amount of them will tell you, "Well, I'm a pretty good person... I think I've done more good than bad."

_________________
Sincerely and respectfully,
Brother Stafford
(1 Timothy 1:15)


“Saying that you like me, but that you do not like my religion, is like saying that you enjoy eating peaches, but that you do not care for their flavor.”


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 Post subject: Re: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:32 pm 
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Brother Stafford wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Jon wrote:
Can any nation that kills 70 million babies since 1973 be considered a ' Christian nation'? I think not.
So, so you agree with Bro. Stafford that the solution is to espouse hatred for your nation and for those who serve and protect it, and for Christians who are politically involved in an effort to stop abortion?
Wow, brother Jeff. You sure dumped a load of assumptions on brother Jon. You immediately inferred that, because Jon questioned America's status as being decidedly a "Christian nation," that it means that he possesses a hatred for America and those who have served. That's a pretty gigantic assumption. It may or may not be true, I don't know what brother Jon believes, but you dumped a load on him because of the disdain you have for me and my position.

Brother Jeff, you keep raving about how wonderful it is that America affords Christians the right to share the Gospel without fear of being arrested, via the 2nd amendment, yet you don't seem to be very tolerant of fellow Christians who have opinions that differ from yours. I keep rebuking a nation as a whole and policies and social norms that I believe are anti biblical and evil. However, you seem to prefer to attack me at a person. I have not called your personal character into question, that I can recall, yet you have gone as far as to call me, as a personal and individual level: useless, cowardly and ungodly and you still have not addressed why you seem to have encouraged me to kill myself.

Jeff wrote:
What are you doing here. You're of no use to anyone, why don't you just go ahead and get to the only Kingdom you belong in?
...Cowardly Christians such as yourself...
...the most ungodly; and men like Brother Stafford...

You seem to infer all sorts of things out of preconceived notions that you have connected to my opinions. I have never said that I am superior to anyone else. I have never said that individual people cannot be saved and are unsalvageable; I said that the nation, as a whole, is beyond salvaging.

I don't hate you, brother Jeff; I love you as I love any other brother in Christ. I do, however, think that you are being a bully to people like brother Jon and myself, who dare to voice an opinion that differs from your own, and I don't find it helpful.

I have abandoned my love for America in general, as a nation, and have stopped filling my head with what I see as political and social clap-trap, that serves to divide people, stoke anger and does nothing to further the Kingdom of God. I have, instead, decided to devote myself entirely to the Great Commission and let, what I see as a godless, heathen and hedonistic country, do what it pleases. I see it like I am running through the streets of Sodom; trying to share the Gospel with as many people as possible, while fire and brimstone is hailing down around us.

I don't need a government to tell me that I have the right to share the Gospel; God has given me that right and has commanded me to do so. If I am in a place where that is safe to do, that is convenient, but I will keep sharing the Gospel if I am in a place where I might be put in jail or have my head cut off. It makes no difference to me.

All you seem to be hearing from me is that I hate a place that you love. A place that will not matter, in the end. I hate evil and godlessness and everything else God hates and I know that you hate all of those things too. I just happen to believe that I hate one more thing than you.
How is simply asking Jon exactly where he stands so offensive? If he is afraid to answer honestly, that pretty well tells me where he stands. After dealing with men like you, when someone says that America is no longer a Christian nation, it raises warning flags that I'm dealing with someone who has declared defeat and is turning our nation over to the ungodly, men who neglect their duties and won't be involved in defending their nation. Whatever happened to "fighting the good fight" and "quit you like men"? I asked you before, you don't even vote, do you? But you don't seem to believe that you need to engage in honest discussion, if anyone questions you, you just make accusations and run.

We've answered your questions and objections, yet you can't return the same consideration. You are so set in your mind that you are so right and I am so wrong that you can't even be bothered to read and respond to legitimate objections. Either that, or you know you can't respond honestly, so you just come and make your accusations about us making accusations, and run.

Let me ask Jon, and you, directly; are you doing anything to stop the abortion that you give lip-service about, or do you believe that your only duty is only spiritual, to pray and such? Can you answer even one simple question?

Also, as I've tried to hint at before, I don't appreciate effectively being told "**** you" as you have done. Yet you seem to think you can say whatever you want while whining about how mistreated you are. If you don't hate me, then why not engage in honest discussion rather than as much as saying **** you to my face?
Baptist1611 wrote:
I can't go around like Noam Chomsky or Jeremiah Wright pretending America is nothing but garbage.
I believe Christians used to be the most patriotic citizens, and with good reason; this country was founded to allow Christianity to flourish.

So why have modern day Christians declared defeat, waved the white flag, and are so easily turning our country over to the ungodly, and effectively joining forces with the most base elements of society by turning their backs on their nation, while at the same time pretending to be taking the high road?


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 Post subject: Re: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:51 pm 
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Brother Stafford wrote:
Baptist1611 wrote:
I can see your point. It's true that abortion is still legal ( for now ) and that is a real shame. But how many people has America saved during that same time? How many millions would have died had Americans not bled and died to save them with our military presence, across Europe, Asia and other places? ( John 15:13 )

How many lives do police officers save every year? ...How many children does America feed today and provide medicine for on a monthly basis, not only at home but around the world? ...How many millions did America save from Ebola? I read the other day that America spent over $750 million to prevent 28,000 cases of that one virus from turning into millions. And that's just one virus! How many millions of people did America save there?


Forgive me, but it sounds as if you are attempting to justify America by saying that our good outweighs our bad. It is not only the number (60,000,000 is more accurate in the U.S.), but the fact that it is legal and approved of and embraced by our leadership and our people.

What if a German said, "Sure, Hitler killed 6 million Jews, but look at what he did for our country." Hitler and the government, police and military he led, are said to have killed 6 million people and he is said to be one of the most evil men that has ever existed. America has made it legal, and it still is today, to kill 60 million unborn babies and you just swept that number under the rug because, "but look at all the good we have done." That's like patting ourselves on the back if we freed slaves in Europe while we still owned slaves at home. "Sure, we own and beat our slaves, but look at all the other slaves we've freed."

My own parents consistently vote for candidates that openly and proudly support abortion and the rights of sodomites and they are two of the most kind and generous people I have ever known. My mother is a devout Catholic (unfortunately) and my father served as a Marine in the Korean war, yet even they are willing to support such abominable evil.

There seems to be a collective irrational belief in American goodness and a minimizing of our evil, by many, because of the false belief that our good outweighs our evil. Ask people, the lost and the thought-to-be saved, why they believe they are going to Heaven and an enormous amount of them will tell you, "Well, I'm a pretty good person... I think I've done more good than bad."
I believe what Baptist is saying is that there is hope as long as the Lord tarries, yet you have declared the US "unsalvageable". He is pointing out the good that America has and is doing due to Christian influence. How do you expect abortion to be reversed if Christians like you just give up and pretend it's not your duty to get involved? I believe that saying America is not salvageable is just an excuse not to do anything, except apparently coming on here and criticizing those who have and are trying to defend our nation form the ungodly.


Do you also believe that those people who believe they are pretty good people are unsalvageable also, and that therefore you should just give up on them the way you have your nation?

And what does the example of your own parents doing the wrong thing have to do with you doing nothing?


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 Post subject: Re: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Brother Stafford wrote:
There seems to be a collective irrational belief in American goodness and a minimizing of our evil, by many, because of the false belief that our good outweighs our evil. Ask people, the lost and the thought-to-be saved, why they believe they are going to Heaven and an enormous amount of them will tell you, "Well, I'm a pretty good person... I think I've done more good than bad."
By the way, and this is another thing I've addressed before; are you sinless? Or can you not be called Christian because you would be minimizing your evil?


Of course, this is another thing I've addressed before:
Jeff wrote:
If, because there is also corruption mixed in with the lofty Christian-American principles, it can't be called Christian, then probably no churches can be called Christian either, unless you can find a perfect church full of perfect people, and only perfect people. Using the same criteria, I guess no individual can be called "Christian" either, as we all fall far short of the perfection of Christ.
But, as you ignore what everyone writes, other than what you choose to take offense at, we just keep going around in circles.


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 Post subject: Re: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:29 pm 
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Brother Stafford wrote:
Forgive me, but it sounds as if you are attempting to justify America by saying that our good outweighs our bad. It is not only the number (60,000,000 is more accurate in the U.S.), but the fact that it is legal and approved of and embraced by our leadership and our people.

Well I have to correct you on this, abortion is "approved of and embraced" by SOME of our leadership and SOME our people.

This is the total disconnect with your limited perspective and your Chomsky/Wright narrative that America is somehow all bad, with nothing worth salvaging.

Gallup’s newest poll shows more Americans consider themselves pro-life, that's roughly half the country like over 100 million pro-lifers out there and you don't think that's worth salvaging -->

http://liveactionnews.org/gallups-newes ... -pro-life/

Another poll shows 81 percent of Americans support dramatically stronger pro-life reforms -->

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/81-pe ... forms-poll

But let's just forget about all that -- because Colin Kaupernick Stafford believes that God doesn't wish for us to salvage our country; because you think it is beyond salvaging. I would hate to see what you did if we were on a ship and it sprang a leak! :?

Brother Stafford wrote:
What if a German said, "Sure, Hitler killed 6 million Jews, but look at what he did for our country." Hitler and the government, police and military he led, are said to have killed 6 million people and he is said to be one of the most evil men that has ever existed.

I already addressed this. And I asked a question which you never answered -- how many people has America saved? How many millions would have died had Americans not bled and died to save them with our military presence, across Europe, Asia and other places? ( John 15:13 ) Why are you ignoring this, does it offend you? I guess the fact that we have real patriots who have laid down their lives for others doesn't even factor into your Chomsky/Kaupernick narrative. :roll:

Brother Stafford wrote:
America has made it legal, and it still is today, to kill 60 million unborn babies and you just swept that number under the rug because, "but look at all the good we have done."

I haven't swept anything anywhere, sir. Please be careful of what you're accusing me of. I've been here for years, making posts about the horrors of the abortion industry and their sins. The difference between us is, you are only seeing the sinful side of America and you are pretending like there is nothing good worth "salvaging" here while vomiting up raw hate for America just like the liberal academics who are corrupting our young people in many of our universities.

Your quotes --->

Brother Stafford wrote:
So, you go ahead and love your vile, godless, puny little America. I will love my country and only my country: the Kingdom of Heaven.

Brother Stafford wrote:
All you seem to be hearing from me is that I hate a place that you love. A place that will not matter, in the end. I hate evil and godlessness and everything else God hates and I know that you hate all of those things too. I just happen to believe that I hate one more thing than you.

Seems to me you really do hate America.

Let me ask you this -- do you enjoy the protection provided you by the American police in your town? Do you enjoy and benefit from the freedom American patriots purchased for you with their blood? Do you ever stop to thank God for America when you carry on your furniture business, "reading, studying and discussing the KJV, amateur vegetable gardening, visiting historical one room churches, tattoo removal" and whatever else you do when you're not hating America?

_________________
"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors." -- George Washington (Ref: A Collection, W.B. Allen, ed. 543)


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