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 Post subject: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:01 am
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I greatly admire Brother David Cloud and, after doing a search on here for him, I see that other members here admire him and quote him as well. Perhaps you will listen to his words on America.

http://www.wayoflife.org/reports/americ ... nation.php

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Sincerely and respectfully,
Brother Stafford
(1 Timothy 1:15)


“Saying that you like me, but that you do not like my religion, is like saying that you enjoy eating peaches, but that you do not care for their flavor.”


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 Post subject: Re: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:38 pm 
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I don't think anyone here would argue the issue of America being a "Christian nation" at the present time. So it's kind of a non-starter.

As for your reference article by David Cloud, ( a man who has viciously attacked KJB defender Peter Ruckman ) I think some of its declarations about HISTORY are very limited in scope and debatable to say the least, such as --->

"America was never a Christian nation in the sense that she was a nation in which true Bible-believing Christians ever formed a large percentage of the population, or in the sense that she was a nation submitted to God’s Word, or that she was a nation that existed for the glory of God."

I don't see how anyone can make a statement like that and pretend it's a fact.

This is considered the birth certificate of the country --
it's called the Mayflower Compact --->

"Having undertaken, for the glory of God, and ADVANCEMENT OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH, and honor of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia, do by these presents solemnly and mutually, in the presence of God, and one of another, covenant and combine our selves together into a civil body politic, for our better ordering and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid; and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame such just and equal laws, ordinances, acts, constitutions and offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the general good of the Colony, unto which we promise all due submission and obedience."

Sure sounds like we started as a Christian nation to me. But rather than argue with you sir, let me just say I don't see anywhere in David Cloud's article where the author has expressed the hatred and open disdain for America that you have shown in your previous posts. -->

Brother Stafford wrote:
I do not believe that God wishes for us to salvage our country; it is beyond salvaging... Screw patriotism.

Brother Stafford wrote:
There is only one nationality that is worth defending and that is our citizenship in God's kingdom.

Brother Stafford wrote:
God's Kingdom is the only one worthy of loyal patriotism.

Brother Stafford wrote:
So, you go ahead and love your vile, godless, puny little America. I will love my country and only my country: the Kingdom of Heaven.


I don't see anything in your reference article that even comes close to that type of anti-American vomit.

I agree with David Cloud that America is about freedom, a fact that he has not ignored. I suspect that men like David Cloud at least appreciate freedom more than you. It kinda feels like your thread was started just to stir up trouble and we now know you have a history here of doing that more than once! :? :? :roll:

As I told you before -- I can agree in condemning "individuals" who are making terrible decisions in leadership. At the same time, I don't see any reason to join you in condemning the ENTIRE NATION of America which is made up of millions of believers and provides us a platform of freedom unlike any other on earth!

_________________
"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors." -- George Washington (Ref: A Collection, W.B. Allen, ed. 543)


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 Post subject: Re: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:45 am 
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So, if America isn't a Christian nation, should all Christians in America stop attempting to exert any kind of Christian influence?

[Matt 5:13] Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Because of all the ungodly things that have happened in Israel throughout the ages, does that mean it wasn't a Jewish nation?


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 Post subject: What's in a Name?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:37 am 
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I still haven't thoroughly read Cloud's article, but it seems to come down to semantics; how you define the term "Christian Nation", and it appears Cloud may just be helping to Cloud the matter.

America (and by "America" I mean the USA, excluding all other parts of North, Central, and South America; no offense to every other country from Canada to Chile) is a Christian nation as the predominately claimed religion since its founding has been Christianity, and also, as Baptist points out, its documents and laws have a distinctly Judeo-Christian flavor. Unlike any other country I know.

If, because there is also corruption mixed in with the lofty Christian-American principles, it can't be called Christian, then probably no churches can be called Christian either, unless you can find a perfect church full of perfect people, and only perfect people. Using the same criteria, I guess no individual can be called "Christian" either, as we all fall far short of the perfection of Christ.

It's sad that people seem to have little problem with other nations being called Muslim, but then take great offense when we are called a Christian Nation, and when Christians get involved in our nation and try to have an influence on it.

Whatever you want to call the nation you were born in and reside in, doesn't change whether or not you owe anything to it or its citizens.

Quote:
[1Pet 2:17] Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

Quote:
PAT'RIOTISM ,n. Love of one's country; the passion which aims to serve one's country, either in defending it from invasion, or protecting its rights and maintaining its laws and institutions in vigor and purity. Patriotism is the characteristic of a good citizen, the noblest passion that animates a man in the character of a citizen.


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 Post subject: America a Church Nation?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:00 am 
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So, how would you describe a Christian Nation? Would everyone need to give a clear testimony of salvation and be baptized before becoming a citizen? Would the children of citizens be allowed remain with their parents until adulthood, at which time they would be required to show evidence of salvation to become citizens? If they don't show evidence of salvation, would they be allowed to remain, but without the rights of citizenship? If a citizen is excommunicated, where would he be excommunicated to?


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 Post subject: Re: America a Church Nation?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:58 am 
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Jeff wrote:
So, how would you describe a Christian Nation?

Millenium.

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1Peter 1:18,19
redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ


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 Post subject: Re: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:13 pm 
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Location: Tenn
http://providencefoundation.com/?page_id=1962
This is what the Founding Father did in our Capitol; it should say something to the people

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He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God,
and he shall be my son.


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 Post subject: Re: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:07 pm 
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Brother Stafford wrote:
I greatly admire Brother David Cloud and, after doing a search on here for him, I see that other members here admire him and quote him as well. Perhaps you will listen to his words on America.

http://www.wayoflife.org/reports/americ ... nation.php

Cloud seems to have great respect for the Patriot George Washington, though it didn't seem to fit his narrative to say much about him in the article you linked to. http://www.wayoflife.org/reports/george ... ument.html

He also seems to think highly of Noah Webster, a man he calls a "Great American", (not a "great citizen of Heaven"); and the man who wrote the definition of patriotism that it's clear you strongly disagree with, though you seem to be either incapable, or inexplicably unwilling, to explain why. http://www.wayoflife.org/reports/noah_w ... rican.html


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 Post subject: Re: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:25 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:24 am
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Can any nation that kills 70 million babies since 1973 be considered a ' Christian nation'? I think not.


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 Post subject: Re: America a Christian Nation?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 9:31 pm 
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Jon wrote:
Can any nation that kills 70 million babies since 1973 be considered a ' Christian nation'? I think not.
So, so you agree with Bro. Stafford that the solution is to espouse hatred for your nation and for those who serve and protect it, and for Christians who are politically involved in an effort to stop abortion?


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