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 Post subject: Pastor who uses constantly sermons from others
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:12 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:11 am
Posts: 2
Hello All,



I am new at the forum. The main reason that I joined this forum is that I live with a burden that I really want to know what I can do. Since I can't find an answer for this on the forum (unless I am mistaken).


I read a lot and I have an extensive library. And therefore I know that church is very important. It was because of a lot of English material (for example about the KJV) that I came as a Dutchman to an independent fundamental baptist church in the Netherlands via a church directory. The only one as far as I know. The church is lead by one pastor with no deacons. It is quite a journey to come to the place, but I don't mind since I am now for three years part of a church with a very biblical statement of faith. For me it was the only real Bible believing church in the Netherlands after I have proved so many since this was KJV only, premillennial, mission orientated and with music standards.


But this year something has happened. After my long absence (because I married a Filipina in the Philippines) when I came back, almost all families that witnessed my baptism are gone. There were almost only new people. When I asked some brothers that left about the details they said that the pastor uses sermons and outlines from others almost all the time for six years. I couldn't believe it. Of course I don't believe in a perfect church on earth and I don't agree with everything. But this was never a ground for separation.


I wanted to see it with my own eyes and started to listen to a lot of his sermons. And yes. It was very easy to find the sermon on the internet. A lot of sermons are just literally copied from this website: http://www.sermonnotebook.org/index.htm Even last month I could just read with the sermon on that website during the preaching. Only some personal facts are different. He uses sometimes literally the same words.


When brothers have talked with him they decided to leave and with them their whole families. They have shown me that they even contacted the missionboard for this. But the mission board doesn't see any problems. One family is now devoted to peculiar teachings in almost all the jots and tittles of certain of a certain preacher, one family is joining now a very liberal church (Pentecostal and Calvinistic related) and another family is in despair since the husband has started drinking, smoking and not praying anymore. Those three men were I believe in all sorts the right hand of the pastor. They even preached sometimes. And they all left! The pastor has one time offered to talk (on a later time) with me about issues that were (I guess that it has something to do with this), but Sunday after Sunday he is not around to talk about it or just for a very small talk.
Of course I understand that you really don't want to be involved in our church matters. But since I am not sure about it for the mission board sees nothing wrong with the pastor using other material, the brothers that were prominent left and I can't find anything on this forum about this or in my library. My question is: Is it Biblical to use other men's material pretending it is your own labour? Because now I don't get to be fed. It is sad to say. But after the service I can find the complete sermon on the internet and lookup all the references. I have even a better understanding of it when I read it later since it is complete with all the references. For the pastor just mention all the scripture references without looking them up and not explaining them.


I really want to know your opinion about it. What can I do? Most church members that are left in church are just there because it is English. I assume after talking with them that they don't even know about it. According to one brother that has left the pastor admitted in front of the church to use other man's material already in August. But now he still uses the whole outline sometimes word for word without any reference that it is not his own. I am still part of this church but I feel extremely sad and burdened about this situation. Because for now this is I believe the only independent fundamental baptist church (not even in my area).


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 Post subject: Re: Pastor who uses constantly sermons from others
PostPosted: Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:56 am
Posts: 3255
kjv1611f wrote:
I really want to know your opinion about it. What can I do? Most church members that are left in church are just there because it is English. I assume after talking with them that they don't even know about it. According to one brother that has left the pastor admitted in front of the church to use other man's material already in August.

Well brother, you have a valid concern, and I suppose you need to set an appointment and have a talk with him.

What is this pastor's background, is English his native language? You say most members are 'just there because it is English.' So obviously there is a language issue there, and it sounds like English sermons are something of a rarity in your area.

So I can see two possibilities:

1. It sounds like he is not hiding this, you say he 'admitted' he is doing this, so I am wondering if maybe he doesn't have a firm grasp on English himself—is it possible that he could be struggling with the language issue and maybe that's why he is doing this? There is only one way to find out; you need to sit down and ask him.

2. On the other hand, perhaps they couldn't find a real pastor, so they appointed this man simply because he understands English along with the Dutch language. In other words, maybe he is serving in a role as more of a 'reader' and a 'linguist' vs. a pastor. I would like to think something like this wouldn't go on for six years, but maybe they can't find a real pastor, or maybe the 'mission board' is part of the problem, I don't know.

Either way, you need to talk with him, or the person who is in charge, and find out what's going on. It's okay to borrow a few illustrations or quotes from another man (with credit to the source), but any true pastor knows the bulk of a sermon should be the result of personal study, as Paul instructed Timothy:

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15

kjv1611f wrote:
I am still part of this church but I feel extremely sad and burdened about this situation. Because for now this is I believe the only independent fundamental baptist church (not even in my area).

Sure, I can understand how that would be frustrating; we sincerely hope and pray you get it sorted out in 2018.

I know it's difficult over there; a little perspective for our readers:

"In 2015, a vast majority of the inhabitants of the Netherlands (82%) said they had never or almost never visited a church, and 59% stated that they had never been to a church of any kind. Of all the people questioned, 24% saw themselves as atheist, an increase of 11% compared to the previous study done in 2006."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands#Religion

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The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalms 12:6-7


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 Post subject: Re: Pastor who uses constantly sermons from others
PostPosted: Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:25 am 

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:11 am
Posts: 2
Thank you for replying so fast.

Bro. Parrish wrote:
What is this pastor's background, is English his native language? You say most members are 'just there because it is English.' So obviously there is a language issue there, and it sounds like English sermons are something of a rarity in your area.

The pastor is from Canada. So yes, English is his native language. The preaching and the service is in English. He lives in an area close to the capital where a lot of people like to hear English since in that region of the Netherlands there a lot of different nationalities. My point in this was that most people just join the church not because of doctrine (unlike me, I stand behind the statement of faith), but because the service is in English. An English church in the rest of the Netherlands won’t work that well most of the time since a lot of native Dutch people want to have the services in Dutch.
Bro. Parrish wrote:
2. On the other hand, perhaps they couldn't find a real pastor, so they appointed this man simply because he understands English along with the Dutch language. In other words, maybe he is serving in a role as more of a 'reader' and a 'linguist' vs. a pastor. I would like to think something like this wouldn't go on for six years, but maybe they can't find a real pastor, or maybe the 'mission board' is part of the problem, I don't know.

The only thing I know is that he studied at an independent fundamental baptist college in Canada. So I think he has at least formal education for it.
Bro. Parrish wrote:
Either way, you need to talk with him, or the person who is in charge, and find out what's going on. It's okay to borrow a few illustrations or quotes from another man (with credit to the source), but any true pastor knows the bulk of a sermon should be the result of personal study, as Paul instructed Timothy:

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." - 2 Timothy 2:15

I agree 100% with that statement and that is exactly what I thought that was not right. The person that is in charge is the pastor himself. There are no deacons or other church leaders. So I will talk with him. I belief we are a very small church. Most of the people that know doctrine are gone. Some would consider them as the elders since they were the right hand of the pastor. But they all have gone there separate ways.
Bro. Parrish wrote:
I know it's difficult over there; a little perspective for our readers:

"In 2015, a vast majority of the inhabitants of the Netherlands (82%) said they had never or almost never visited a church, and 59% stated that they had never been to a church of any kind. Of all the people questioned, 24% saw themselves as atheist, an increase of 11% compared to the previous study done in 2006."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands#Religion

That is so true. Humanism is the real religion with people in my area. It is one thing to find someone that is born again. But is it is an completely other thing to find someone that is taking the Bible serious in all its ways. Someone that is a real fundamental Bible believer. That is the reason why I don’t mind travel a far distance to be with a good church since all churches in my area has compromised majorly unfortunately.


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