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 Post subject: Re: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:25 am 
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waitingforzion wrote:
If there is only one unforgivable sin, and that sin is permanently rejecting the gospel, why does Revelation 22:18, 19 seem to warn of irrevocable consequences? It would seem that Revelation 22:18,19 describes an unforgivable sin.

Then they better repent.

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 Post subject: Re: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 5:28 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:37 pm
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Baptist1611 wrote:
waitingforzion wrote:
If there is only one unforgivable sin, and that sin is permanently rejecting the gospel, why does Revelation 22:18, 19 seem to warn of irrevocable consequences? It would seem that Revelation 22:18,19 describes an unforgivable sin.

This act has consequences -- but where does it say they are "irrevocable" for someone who repents? Where does it say that this sin is "unforgivable" for someone who seeks forgiveness?

ISAIAH 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.



It does not explicitly say that the consequences are irrevocable, but it does give a consequence that is the result of committing that sin. If God is going to judge the person who commits that sin based on the warning, how can they be forgiven?


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 Post subject: Re: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:59 pm 
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waitingforzion wrote:
Baptist1611 wrote:
waitingforzion wrote:
If there is only one unforgivable sin, and that sin is permanently rejecting the gospel, why does Revelation 22:18, 19 seem to warn of irrevocable consequences? It would seem that Revelation 22:18,19 describes an unforgivable sin.

This act has consequences -- but where does it say they are "irrevocable" for someone who repents? Where does it say that this sin is "unforgivable" for someone who seeks forgiveness?

ISAIAH 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.


It does not explicitly say that the consequences are irrevocable, but it does give a consequence that is the result of committing that sin. If God is going to judge the person who commits that sin based on the warning, how can they be forgiven?


Well sir -- I would say because of God's supernatural love, okay? :P
Look buddy, there are consequences to every sin. The consequences of rejecting the Gospel are just as severe as any of these so called "irrevocable" sins you're hung up on. If a man dies without Christ the consequences of that are are irrevocable, are they not? The lake of fire is irrevocable, is it not? And yet somehow we who seek forgiveness can find it because of God's great love for us! But we can't go around being obsessed with this idea that God's doesn't want to help us. Because that is a big fat lie from hell!

I don't know -- I guess there are all kinds of Christians out there worrying about whether they have committed some type of"unforgivable" sin? We have another guy on this thread who is so confused he thinks even some Christians todaycan never be forgiven?

For those people I say this -- if you are born again God has adopted you as his child and you might as well relax and accept it because -- it is finished!!!!!! I would say to them, hey rise up out of this doubt and fear and start filling your mind with better thoughts -- maybe then you can stop being focused on your self and actually start helping others! --->

PHIL 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

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 Post subject: Re: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:09 pm 
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waitingforzion wrote:
The Bible seems to contain some passages that suggest a person can commit certain sins which irrevocably seal their doom in this life. Is it true that someone can commit a sin in this life for which God will not permit them to be saved? There are passages in the Mathew, Mark, and Luke that speak of a sin which will not be forgiven. There are passages in Hebrews and Peter which suggest the possibility of falling away to an unrecoverable state. And there is a passages in Revelation (Rev 22:19) which speaks of judgment on those who tamper with the word of God. Given that these passages are present in scripture, does this mean that someone can commit one of these sins, seek God's forgiveness, and be rejected? If not, how do we deal with the passages I mentioned above?


Are you concern with this like in a worrying about yourself manner, or are you just wondering as in you are puzzled with this?
You don't have to answer..as brother Parrish mentioned, I too have followed several of your previous threads and have noted your thread history as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:57 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:37 pm
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Bro. Chuck wrote:
waitingforzion wrote:
The Bible seems to contain some passages that suggest a person can commit certain sins which irrevocably seal their doom in this life. Is it true that someone can commit a sin in this life for which God will not permit them to be saved? There are passages in the Mathew, Mark, and Luke that speak of a sin which will not be forgiven. There are passages in Hebrews and Peter which suggest the possibility of falling away to an unrecoverable state. And there is a passages in Revelation (Rev 22:19) which speaks of judgment on those who tamper with the word of God. Given that these passages are present in scripture, does this mean that someone can commit one of these sins, seek God's forgiveness, and be rejected? If not, how do we deal with the passages I mentioned above?


Are you concern with this like in a worrying about yourself manner, or are you just wondering as in you are puzzled with this?
You don't have to answer..as brother Parrish mentioned, I too have followed several of your previous threads and have noted your thread history as well.



I am concerned about myself. I am worried that somehow I was a false professor and then fell away to the point where I cannot be saved. When I was younger I believed the gospel, but I am worried that somehow I did not believe properly. I do not remember exactly whether I asked God to forgive me of my sins, although I believed that Christ died for my sins and rose again. As I got into my teen years I started committing certain sins. I thought that I could make energy balls and stuff like that. I quit doing that, but several years later I started hearing what I thought were people talking about me far away. I would listen real carefully and think all sorts of things were happening that were not happening. Eventually I wound up in the hospital and I was afraid I lost my salvation. I kept on looking up information about Hebrews 6 and accepted the interpretation that it was speaking of false professors instead of born again believers. Unfortunately, much later on I started worrying if I was ever saved to begin with.

I keep on looking for information about the warnings in Hebrews but I feel like it is not satisfying. Most interpretations on the internet involve false professor falling away, and the ones that involve sanctification and chastisement do not seem to give enough information about the greek and stuff. Sometimes I feel like I understand Hebrews, but then I start worrying about the unforgivable sin, or the sin in revelations 22:18,19. The thing that really bothers me about the unforgivable sin it that it talks about just uttering a word. If the sin was permanently rejecting the gospel then why does it mention just uttering a word? I am also worried somehow that I rejected the gospel by choosing to be evil for a day. One day I decided that I was going to be evil, but the next day I changed my mind. I kept going around thinking evil thoughts. I still wanted to have a relationship with God, but I am worried about whether I rejected Him when I was doing that.

I am worried that somehow I did not believe "to the saving of the soul" and lost my chance to be saved, because I do not remember specifically asking God to forgive me of my sins. I just believed that He died for my sins and rose again, and I preached that to others.

The problem I am having with the book of Hebrews is that no one seems to take all five warning passages into account when applying chapter 6. I have read some interpretations which say that a person cannot repent for as long as they are crucifying the son of God, but not if they stop. But that does not take into account chapter 12 where it says that Esau was unable to repent. I also worry that I do not have any fruit. In Hebrews it says, "and being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey Him." I read that eternal salvation is in an eschatological sense but it does not seem to be apparent at first reading. Then it warns about not entering into God's rest, and say that "We who have believed do enter into rest". I get the impression that the author of Hebrews is warning the unregenerate because they are capable of not entering into God's rest.


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 Post subject: Re: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:55 pm 
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Well he answered you Bro. Chuck -- told ya!
Right back to the "unforgivable sin." A little obsessed with this maybe?

Hey WFZ you need to get into a good Bible study group and get some discipleship in your life. I think the forum management has been very patient in answering your questions but seems like you are clearly ignoring the answers for the most part. Sad to say I noticed you also ignored the simple questions I posed to you. Anyhow we are all praying for you -- and please remember you cannot build your theology only with the book of Hebrews!

Take a look at this --->

Here are the words you are focusing on:

1. "Unforgivable" - appears ZERO times in KJB.

2. "Irrevocable" - appears ZERO times in KJB.

PLEASE COMPARE TO:

1. "Forgiven" - appears 46 times in KJB.

2. "Redeemed" - appears 62 times in KJB.

3. "Atonement" - appears 70 times in KJB.

Am I making myself clear here???? :geek:

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 Post subject: Re: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 6:03 pm 
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waitingforzion wrote:

I am concerned about myself. I am worried that somehow I was a false professor and then fell away to the point where I cannot be saved. When I was younger I believed the gospel, but I am worried that somehow I did not believe properly.

WaitingForZion, I would suggest you to start simply focusing on God and serving Him. If you keep focusing on yourself so much you are never going to be satisfied. I just counted 8 "I's" in this little portion of your post, and that portion was almost clipped by accident. Do you see the point?
How about let me give you a little assignment:
Memorize the chapter of Psalms 103. It may be hard, but it's only 22 verses. Read it over and over as much as you can. Memorize maybe 5 verses a day, but read the whole chapter 3 times a day. Like once in the morning, once a noon and then again in the evening, but through out the day as much as possible be practicing and memorizing at least 5 verses a day.

When you are reading the Bible, think of God and who the Lord is and just follow Him with all your heart.

I honestly believe that these fears are some type of obsessive thing which would be nothing more than a mental issue that you just need to get over. Quit thinking about it because it isn't nothing that is real, but simply a tormenting thought. Don't entertain those kind of thoughts. Just read the Bible and think of God, and how you can better be a witness for Him.
I really believe that your answer is at hand.

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 Post subject: Too late to call upon the Lord?
PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 6:02 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:37 pm
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I heard Steven L Anderson preach a sermon where he quoted the passage starting at Proverbs 1:28 and going on a few verses as a text that shows some people will seek God but because God is sick of them will not let them find him and just laugh at them. I am concerned that this passage is teaching that some people can try to call upon Jesus and not be saved. I am concerned that I can't see Jesus even though I know how the Bible describes Jesus because I was somehow blinded because of some type of sin.

Thank God I don't really hear the voices anymore but I still have other issues and I am still worried that somehow God does not love me or want me to be saved. Pastor Anderson teaches that God gets sick of some people before they die and decides that He wants them to be lost. He said that Joseph Prince became a Jehovah's Witness because God did not want him to become a Christian because it was too late for him and God was sick of him.

I thought I believed in Jesus but I am worried that I do not have the Spirit that is needed to see Jesus and thus do not really believe in Him. I am worried that God has blinded my heart because of sins I committed in the past. The Bible seems to teach that God hardens people's hearts and blinds them so that they cannot be forgiven. Why does the Bible teach this if it is possible for anybody to be saved at any point in life? Why are there writings from people who thought they were slipping into hell and could not be saved? If they could be saved on their deathbed, why did they not just call upon the name of the Lord? It seems that they felt that they it would do them no good, and maybe they did but they felt it did not help them.

What about King Saul? He sought the Lord several times and God did not answer him. Then he inquired of a medium and Samuel came up and pronounced God's judgment. It seems that Saul was not able to be forgiven, and was not told what he needed to do to be forgiven.


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 Post subject: Re: Too late to call upon the Lord?
PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2016 12:20 am 
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waitingforzion wrote:
I heard Steven L Anderson preach a sermon where he quoted the passage starting at Proverbs 1:28 and going on a few verses as a text that shows some people will seek God but because God is sick of them will not let them find him and just laugh at them. I am concerned that this passage is teaching that some people can try to call upon Jesus and not be saved. I am concerned that I can't see Jesus even though I know how the Bible describes Jesus because I was somehow blinded because of some type of sin.

Thank God I don't really hear the voices anymore but I still have other issues and I am still worried that somehow God does not love me or want me to be saved. Pastor Anderson teaches that God gets sick of some people before they die and decides that He wants them to be lost. He said that Joseph Prince became a Jehovah's Witness because God did not want him to become a Christian because it was too late for him and God was sick of him.

I thought I believed in Jesus but I am worried that I do not have the Spirit that is needed to see Jesus and thus do not really believe in Him. I am worried that God has blinded my heart because of sins I committed in the past. The Bible seems to teach that God hardens people's hearts and blinds them so that they cannot be forgiven. Why does the Bible teach this if it is possible for anybody to be saved at any point in life? Why are there writings from people who thought they were slipping into hell and could not be saved? If they could be saved on their deathbed, why did they not just call upon the name of the Lord? It seems that they felt that they it would do them no good, and maybe they did but they felt it did not help them.

What about King Saul? He sought the Lord several times and God did not answer him. Then he inquired of a medium and Samuel came up and pronounced God's judgment. It seems that Saul was not able to be forgiven, and was not told what he needed to do to be forgiven.


I would suggest you try reading the whole passage, at least Proverbs 1:20-33. You should see that it is Wisdom who is speaking, and it appears that she continues to speak throughout the rest of the chapter. Just the fact that Wisdom is referred to as "she" (verse 20) tells me that "wisdom" is not a direct reference to God.

If I could sum up the passage, I would say that it is saying that those who disregard wisdom will suffer for it. There are many, even professing Christians, who reject wisdom, that is why our world and nation are in the state they're in today. Proverbs gives many practical illustrations for practical day to day living. Old Testament Israel suffered for disregarding the words of the Lord. God gave them many warnings and many opportunities to repent and avoid the suffering. Even when they didn't and went into captivity, God didn't desert them and waited for the time to redeem them.

I'm sure you know this verse:
Quote:
[John 3:16] ¶ For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Not only did God love the world, but the Lord Jesus Christ suffered, shed His blood, and died for our sins. I can't comprehend the price He paid or the suffering He endured for us. That is not a God who is sick of us and wants us to perish. Given that God gave His Son to pay the price so that we wouldn't have to, I find it somewhat offensive to suggest He wants to throw that sacrifice away and send us to Hell anyway. God is not willing that any should perish.
Quote:
[2Pet 3:9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


The history of Saul is a long account. His life was marked by disobedience over and over again, and that did cause him many problems. Disobedience and lack of wisdom do go together and cause many problems in this world. In the situation you referred to where Saul went to the witch, Saul was seeking help against the Philistines, he was looking for physical deliverance, not salvation. Witchcraft itself is against God's command, and going to the witch was one more sin Saul committed. God didn't answer because of Saul's disobedience. In the New Testament, James, for one, talks about the futility of asking amiss.

Continued and willful disobedience can lead to hearts being hardened and consciences being seared. I don't believe it is Biblical to think that God hardens people's hearts because He's vindictive. I think even Christians who are saved can have pretty dull consciences, but that doesn't mean that they can't and won't be saved, just that they're missing out on blessings and rewards God may have intended for us. And their dull consciences come about not because God wants to deprive them of blessings, but because they are lazy and worldly.

I would say your problems are caused by lack of faith and/or understanding. I don't remember if you've said whether you've found an IFB church where you can have some more personal discussions face to face, but beware of listening to various internet, or other media, sources.

One last note on the Proverbs passage; don't forget the last verse:
Quote:
[Prov 1:33] But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil.


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 Post subject: Re: Too late to call upon the Lord?
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2016 10:34 am 
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waitingforzion wrote:
I heard Steven L Anderson preach a sermon where he quoted the passage starting at Proverbs 1:28 and going on a few verses as a text that shows some people will seek God but because God is sick of them will not let them find him and just laugh at them. I am concerned that this passage is teaching that some people can try to call upon Jesus and not be saved. I am concerned that I can't see Jesus even though I know how the Bible describes Jesus because I was somehow blinded because of some type of sin.

Thank God I don't really hear the voices anymore but I still have other issues and I am still worried that somehow God does not love me or want me to be saved. Pastor Anderson teaches that God gets sick of some people before they die and decides that He wants them to be lost. He said that Joseph Prince became a Jehovah's Witness because God did not want him to become a Christian because it was too late for him and God was sick of him.

WFZ, the Bible says God is not willing that any should perish. Like I said on your other thread -- this might be one reason you're always so confused and distraught about the Bible, you seem to be pulling material from questionable sources and bits and pieces when you would be better off surrounding yourself with good doctrine -- I think the people here care about you and have already told you to seek out a good church, Bible study group or sunday school ministry so you can get a solid base of doctrine! :|

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