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 Post subject: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy - Prayer Request
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:13 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:37 pm
Posts: 41
The Bible seems to contain some passages that suggest a person can commit certain sins which irrevocably seal their doom in this life. Is it true that someone can commit a sin in this life for which God will not permit them to be saved? There are passages in the Mathew, Mark, and Luke that speak of a sin which will not be forgiven. There are passages in Hebrews and Peter which suggest the possibility of falling away to an unrecoverable state. And there is a passages in Revelation (Rev 22:19) which speaks of judgment on those who tamper with the word of God. Given that these passages are present in scripture, does this mean that someone can commit one of these sins, seek God's forgiveness, and be rejected? If not, how do we deal with the passages I mentioned above?


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 Post subject: Re: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:46 pm
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Location: Otsego Co. NY
This is something that I've wondered about myself, thank you for posting it. I'm anxious to hear others thoughts on this.

Bob

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Acts 16:31, "Believe on the lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and thy house"


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 Post subject: Re: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy
PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:48 pm 
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waitingforzion wrote:
The Bible seems to contain some passages that suggest a person can commit certain sins which irrevocably seal their doom in this life. Is it true that someone can commit a sin in this life for which God will not permit them to be saved?

I can assure you, those who seek God's forgiveness today will surely find it (Rom. 10:13). The big problem today is not some special, mysterious sin in particular. In fact, with regard to the unsaved, the very basic and common sin of rejecting God's Savior Jesus and His redeeming blood sacrifice is enough to 'seal their doom.' Beyond that, what does it matter? God is not willing that any should perish, but God will not 'permit' anyone to be saved without Jesus, because there is no other name under heaven whereby we must be saved...

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." - Acts 4:12

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." - John 14:6

My friend, I have to filter all of your questions through the lens of your previous posts; and based on your claim of mental illness below, and your many posts regarding your fear of trusting God to save you, it's obvious you are heavily focused on this issue. We are praying for your clear understanding of these doctrines.

waitingforzion wrote:
I have a mental illness which can cause delusions and hallucinations, but sometimes I hear semi audible voices accusing me of hypocracy and being so selfish and evil that God doesn't want to save me...

I keep on trying not to do a sin but when I miss my medication I hear a semi audible voice telling me that I am doing it on purpose...

Do evil spirits lie this way? Why does God permit that to happen when I believe that Jesus died for my sins and rose again, and is the Son of God, and I keep on asking Him to forgive me of my sins and fill me with His spirit, and I keep on reading the Bible when I get over my fear...

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The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalms 12:6-7


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 Post subject: Re: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:17 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:37 pm
Posts: 41
What about this passage from Issaiah 60:10?

Quote:
Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.


I heard a pastor teach that when the unsaved commit certain kinds of sins, God makes it so that they cannot be saved. In other words, they cannot call upon the name of the Lord and be saved because God has removed their ability to do so. If that is not the case, then what is the correct application of Isaiah 60:10?

Also what about 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12?

Quote:
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Isn't that saying that God is going to make some people unable to believe the gospel?


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 Post subject: Re: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:56 am
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waitingforzion wrote:
What about this passage from Issaiah 60:10?

Quote:
Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.


I heard a pastor teach that when the unsaved commit certain kinds of sins, God makes it so that they cannot be saved. In other words, they cannot call upon the name of the Lord and be saved because God has removed their ability to do so. If that is not the case, then what is the correct application of Isaiah 60:10?

Also what about 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12?
Quote:
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Isn't that saying that God is going to make some people unable to believe the gospel?

Based on 2 Cor 4:4, all natural men today are already blind, but that is not God's fault, and God is not preventing people from believing today.

Knowing your background and your confusion, I think you have to be very careful about confusing the temporary and partial blindness of Israel in the Old Testament (and it is temporary; see Rom. 11:25) with the general blindness currently caused by Satan:

"But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them." - 2 Cor 4:4.

As for the passage in Thes 2:11-12; I believe that has nothing to do with the Church in this dispensation. The timing on it is very specific. Please notice the context is in the future, post-rapture, AFTER the son of perdition (alternate title for the antichrist) has been revealed. Carefully read through proceeding verses 3-4, also 7-10 and you will see this delusion is a direct result of their rejecting God's truth. "because they received NOT the love of the truth, that they might be saved." - vs. 10.

First these future unbelievers will choose to reject God, then the delusion comes, but it will still be their choice all along to reject the truth out of their own free will.

Notice the future aspect of vs 8: "And then SHALL that Wicked be revealed" and "And for this cause God SHALL send them strong delusion."

So you see, this has nothing to do with today's dispensation of Grace, and God has not been choosing who to condemn among the so-called "totally depraved" robots, as Calvinism teaches. Jesus draws ALL men, and God is not wiling that any should perish.

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance." - 2 Pet 3:9.

My friend, I gave considerable time to typing out a detailed reply to a similar question for another member about this topic back in April; please click on the link below and read my comments very carefully on this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2112&p=15635

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The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." Psalms 12:6-7


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 Post subject: Re: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:11 pm
Posts: 4
waitingforzion wrote:
The Bible seems to contain some passages that suggest a person can commit certain sins which irrevocably seal their doom in this life. Is it true that someone can commit a sin in this life for which God will not permit them to be saved? There are passages in the Mathew, Mark, and Luke that speak of a sin which will not be forgiven. There are passages in Hebrews and Peter which suggest the possibility of falling away to an unrecoverable state. And there is a passages in Revelation (Rev 22:19) which speaks of judgment on those who tamper with the word of God. Given that these passages are present in scripture, does this mean that someone can commit one of these sins, seek God's forgiveness, and be rejected? If not, how do we deal with the passages I mentioned above?

I believe there is an a sin than will not be forgiven. It would only apply to a true born again Christian. An example of this was, when the religious leaders accused Jesus of performing his miracles by or through Satan. They knew better, because they were learned in God's word and they knew who He was, but were not willing to give up their religious power, for the truth. I believe this would apply to a Christian, who had past the milk stages of the Gospel and is well stooped into the words and knowledge of God.


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 Post subject: Re: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:45 pm 
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Posts: 912
waitingforzion wrote:
... Given that these passages are present in scripture, does this mean that someone can commit one of these sins, seek God's forgiveness, and be rejected? If not, how do we deal with the passages I mentioned above?

I always keep in mind the parable of the sower; I expect those verses will fit into one of those categories.

Mat 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
Mat 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
Mat 13:20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Mat 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Mat 13:23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

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 Post subject: Re: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:39 pm 
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jetson wrote:
I believe there is an a sin than will not be forgiven. It would only apply to a true born again Christian. An example of this was, when the religious leaders accused Jesus of performing his miracles by or through Satan.

You are gonna confuse Waitingforzion even worse than he is now. If you think a truly born again Christian can get into a position where he will never be forgiven, I believe you greatly err, not knowing the scriptures! The Christian has already been forgiven. People make this mistake all the time -- pretending there were all these born-again Christians running around in the Gospels. :roll:

The problem with your theory is those Pharisees in MATT 12 were not sealed with the indwelling Holy Spirit the same as Christians today. They were trusting in their Sabbath-keeping ( look at 12:2 ) and traditions of men and on their way to hell!

jetson wrote:
They knew better, because they were learned in God's word and they knew who He was, but were not willing to give up their religious power, for the truth. I believe this would apply to a Christian, who had past the milk stages of the Gospel and is well stooped into the words and knowledge of God.


Two simple questions -- what exactly do you think is going to happen to this "truly born again Christian" in your imagination who commits this unforgivable sin when he dies? And may I ask what is your theological background?

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"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors." -- George Washington (Ref: A Collection, W.B. Allen, ed. 543)


Last edited by Baptist1611 on Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 7:48 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:37 pm
Posts: 41
If there is only one unforgivable sin, and that sin is permanently rejecting the gospel, why does Revelation 22:18, 19 seem to warn of irrevocable consequences? It would seem that Revelation 22:18,19 describes an unforgivable sin.


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 Post subject: Re: Unforgivable Sins and Apostasy
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:45 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:56 pm
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waitingforzion wrote:
If there is only one unforgivable sin, and that sin is permanently rejecting the gospel, why does Revelation 22:18, 19 seem to warn of irrevocable consequences? It would seem that Revelation 22:18,19 describes an unforgivable sin.

This act has consequences -- but where does it say they are "irrevocable" for someone who repents? Where does it say that this sin is "unforgivable" for someone who seeks forgiveness?

ISAIAH 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

_________________
"It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors." -- George Washington (Ref: A Collection, W.B. Allen, ed. 543)


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