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 Post subject: Scatterbrained Septuagint Silliness
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:39 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:54 pm
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Location: Colorado
Scatterbrained Septuagint Silliness

Judges 16:13-14; 2 Samuel 13:21, 34 and 2 Samuel 14:30


Judges 16:13 -14 NIV, NASB, RSV, ESV, NET add to the words of God.

“Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you” Deuteronomy 4:2

“Every word of God is pure; he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. ADD THOU NOT unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.” Proverbs 30:5-6

The following 4 examples could be repeated scores of times if you follow the various footnotes and textual differences found in such modern versions as the RSV, ESV, NIV, NASB, NET or Holman Standard. These are just sampliings of the scatterbrained foolishness that calls itself the “Science” of Textual Criticism so popular today.

In the King James Bible based on the inspired Hebrew texts we read in Judges 16:13-14 - “13 And Delilah said unto Samson, Hitherto thou hast mocked me, and told me lies: tell me wherewith thou mightest be bound. And he said unto her, If thou weavest the seven locks of my head with the web. 14And she fastened it with the pin, and said unto him, The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. And he awaked out of his sleep, and went away with the pin of the beam, and with the web.”

So read all Hebew texts as well as Coverdale 1535, the Great Bible 1540, Matthew’s Bible 1549, the Bishops’ Bible 1568, the Geneva Bible 1587, the Revised Version 1885, the American Standard Version 1901, the Jewish Publication Society translation of 1917, the Hebrew Publishing Company translation 1936, the Complete Jewish Bible, the Hebrew Names Version of 2008, the Complete Tanach 2004, the Torah Transliteration Scriptures of 2008, Darby, Youngs, the 1987 Amplified, the NKJV 1982 and the Holman Standard of 2003.

Among foreign language translations that follow the Hebrew texts and do not add the extra 30-35 words are Lamsa’s 1936 translation of the Syriac, the French Martin 1744, Louis Segond 1910, French Ostervald 1996, Luther’s German Bible, the Portuguese Almeida, the Spanish Reina Valera 1909, 1960, 1995 and even the Modern Greek Version.

However many modern versions add some 30 to 35 additional words to the Hebrew text taken from “Some” copies of the so called Greek Septuagint texts.

Among these modern versions that add words to the Hebrew texts are the NIV, NASB, RSV, NRSV, ESV, New English Bible 1970, the Message and the NET version by Daniel Wallace and company.


The NIV reads: “Delilah then said to Samson, “Until now, you have been making a fool of me and lying to me. Tell me how you can be tied.” He replied, “If you weave the seven braids of my head into the fabric on the loom AND TIGHTEN IT WITH THE PIN, I’LL BECOME AS WEAK AS ANY OTHER MAN.” SO WHILE HE WAS SLEEPING, DELIALAH TOOK THE SEVEN BRAIDS OF HIS HEAD, WOVE THEM INTO THE FABRIC AND[a] tightened it with the pin. Again she called to him, “Samson, the Philistines are upon you!” He awoke from his sleep and pulled up the pin and the loom, with the fabric.”

Then in a footnote the NIV and others tell us that these 30 some extra words come from “SOME” Septuagint manuscripts, but that the Hebrew does not contain these extra words.

The popular version among the bible agnostics is Daniel Wallace and company’s NET (NUT) version. It also adds all these extra words but then has this silly footnote - The MT of vv. 13b-14a reads simply, “He said to her, ‘If you weave the seven braids of my head with the web.’ And she fastened with the pin and said to him.” (My note:This is exactly what is found in the King James Bible) The additional words in the translation, “and secure it with the pin, I will become weak and be like any other man.’ 16:14 So she made him go to sleep, wove the seven braids of his hair into the fabric on the loom,” which without doubt represent the original text, are supplied from the ancient Greek version. In both vv. 13b and 14a the Greek version has “to the wall” after “with the pin,” but this is an interpretive addition that reflects a misunderstanding of ancient weaving equipment. See G. F. Moore, Judges [ICC], 353-54. The Hebrew textual tradition was accidentally shortened during the copying process. A scribe’s eye jumped from the first instance of “with the web” to the second, causing him to leave out inadvertently the intervening words.”

So, according to men like Daniel Wallace all these extra words “without doubt represent the original text” - (although numerous others disagree with him) - and that even though Wallace thinks they are part of the original text, they are STILL WRONG for adding words that “reflect a misunderstanding of ancient weaving equipment”! So Bible critics like Daniel Wallace think that even the original text was wrong!!!

Can you believe it? And people actually take these guys seriously!

2 Samuel 13:34

In 2 Samuel 13:34 we read in the Hebrew texts as well as the King James Bible - “But Absalom fled. And the young man that kept the watch lifted up his eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came much people by the way of the hill side behind him.”
So read all Jewish translations, the Geneva Bible, RV, ASV, NASB, NKJV, the Amplified, the Holman Standard and this time even the NET version.

However the NIV 1978, 1984 and 2010 editions add some 21 extra words taken from what is called the Greek Septuagint version. The NIVs say: “Meanwhile, Absalom had fled. Now the man standing watch looked up and saw many people on the road west of him, coming down the side of the hill. THE WATCHMAN WENT AND TOLD THE KING, “I SEE MEN IN THE DIRECTION OF HORONAIM, ON THE SIDE OF THE HILL.” Footnotes: 2 Samuel 13:34 Septuagint; Hebrew does not have this sentence.

Other bible translations that add these extra words not found in any Hebrew text are the New English Bible 1970, the Contemporary English Version 1995, the New Living Translation 1996, and the Message 2002.

The ESV of 2001 is weird in that it omits what the Septuagint says, but refers to only part of these extra words in a footnote. The ESV reads: “But Absalom fled. And the young man who kept the watch lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, many people were coming from the road behind him [a]by the side of the mountain.”Footnotes: 2 Samuel 13:34 Septuagint the Horonaim Road


The old RSV 1973 and the NRSV of 1989 (of which the ESV is the latest revision) did not add ALL the extra words found in the Septuagint like the NIVs do, but only a small part. The NRSV, RSV read: “But Absalom fled. When the young man who kept watch looked up, he saw many people coming FROM THE HOROMAIN ROAD by the side of the mountain.” Then they footnoted “Compare Greek”. $cholar$hip is a wonderful thing, isn’t it.

So, the ESV omitted the Septuagint words which the NIVs add - “The watchman went and told the king, I see men in the direction of Horonaimon the side of the mountain.” and omits from their text the partial added words found in the previous RSV, NRSVs, but then refers to these same previously included extra words in a footnote, just so you won’t get too comfortable thinking you might actually have the infallible words of God in front of you. It just gets better and better, doesn’t it.

More scatterbrained uses of the so called Septuagint. 2 Samuel 13:21

Here the Hebrew texts as well as the King James Bible and most bible translations throughout history read: “But when king David heard of all these things, he was very wroth.”

So read all Hebrew translations, the Geneva Bible, NKJV, NASB, NIV, RSV and the ESV. However the ESV footnote informs us that the so called Greek Septuagint adds the extra words “BUT HE WOULD NOT PUNISH HIS SON AMMON, BECAUSE HE LOVED HIM, SINCE HE WAS HIS FIRSTBORN.”

These extra words ARE added in such versions as the Catholic Douay version 1950, the New English Bible 1970, NRSV of 1989, the Revised English Version (Bruce Metzger) of 1989, the St. Joseph New American Bible 1970, the Contemporary English Version put out by the American Bible Society in 1995, God’s Word Translation 1995 and the Catholic Public Domain Bible of 2009. Notice that the RSV omitted the words, the NRSV put them in, and now the ESV once again takes them out but still retains them in their footnote.

Daniel Wallace and company’s NET version does not include the extra words in their text, but in their footnote they tell us: “The LXX and part of the Old Latin tradition include the following addition to v. 21, also included in some English versions (e.g., NAB, NRSV, CEV): “But he did not grieve the spirit of Amnon his son, because he loved him, since he was his firstborn.”

Then we have the case of 2 Samuel 14:30

Here we read in the Hebrew texts and the King James Bible: “Therefore he said unto his servants, See, Joab's field is near mine, and he hath barley there; go and set it on fire. And Absalom's servants set the field on fire.”

So read the Geneva Bible, RV, ASV, NKJV, NASB, NIV and even the RSV, NRSV and ESV. However many words are added by the LXX version and the ESV footnote informs us that it then goes on to add the followiing words - “SO JOAB’S SERVANTS CAME TO HIM WITH THEIR CLOTHES TORN, AND THEY SAID TO HIM, ‘THE SERVANTS OF ABSALOM HAVE SET YOUR FIELD ON FIRE.’”

Versions that DO add these extra words taken from the Greek Septuagint are the Catholic Douay version of 1950, the St. Joseph New American Bible 1970, New English Bible 1970, God’s Word Translation 1995 and the Catholic Public Domain Version of 2009. This time the Contemporary English Version of 1995 does NOT add the extra words to 2 Samuel 14:30 though it DOES in Judges 16:13-14; 2 Samuel 13:21 and in 2 Samuel 13:34 - and all of this based on the same textual evidence! Likewise among the Catholic versions we find the same willy nilly fickleness in that these extra words are IN the Douay version of 1950, THEN removed in the 1968 Jerusalem bible, then BACK IN the St. Joseph New American Bible of 1970, ONCE AGAIN removed in the 1985 New Jerusalem bible, and then PUT BACK IN ONCE AGAIN in the 2009 Catholic Public Domain Version of 2009!

My advice - Get away from all this “science” of textual criticism foolishness and get yourselves a King James Holy Bible and let your soul find rest in the unchangeable and infallible words of the living God.

Will Kinney

For more information on the fictitious use of the so called Greek Septuagint in the New Testament see

No LXX - http://brandplucked.webs.com/nolxx.htm


Return to Articles - http://brandplucked.webs.com/articles.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Scatterbrained Septuagint Silliness
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:41 pm 
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brandplucked wrote:
My advice - Get away from all this “science” of textual criticism foolishness and get yourselves a King James Holy Bible and let your soul find rest in the unchangeable and infallible words of the living God.

Great advice, thanks Bro. Kinney!

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 Post subject: More Septuagint Silliness
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:14 am 

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1 Samuel 9:25

1 Samuel 9:25-26 In the Hebrew texts as well as the King James Bible and many others as we shall soon see, we read a series of events that occurred when Saul went to see Samuel and he was anointed to be king of Israel. V.25. “And when they were come down from the high place into the city, Samuel communed with Saul upon the top of the house.”

V. 26. “AND THEY AROSE EARLY: and it came to pass about the spring of the day, that Samuel called Saul to the top of the house, saying, Up, that I may send thee away...”

So read the Geneva Bible, King James Bible, Revised Version 1885, ASV 1901, the NKJV 1982, NIV 1984, 2010, Darby, Douay, Youngs, the NASB 1995, ALL Jewish translations like the JPS 1917 and Hebrew Tanach of 2004, the Complete Jewish Bible, the Syriac, the 2003 Holman Standard Version and even the NET version by Daniel Wallace and company. I mention the NET version because of their blatant hypocricy for including the Septuagint readings in so many other parts of the NUT version.


However the Liberal RSV of 1952, the NRSV 1989 and the revised ESV of 2001 all ADD about 15 words to the Hebrew texts by adding a reading from the so called Septuagint and they omit some 9 words that ARE in the Hebrew text! The ESV says in verse 25 - “And when they came down from the high place into the city A BED WAS SPREAD FOR SAUL ON THE ROOF, AND HE LAY DOWN TO SLEEP. ** Then at the break of dawn Samuel called to Saul on the roof, Up, that I may send you on your way.”

*** Footnotes. All the capitalized words are not in the Hebrew text but are taken from the Septuagint, and the ESV omits the words “AND THEY AROSE EARLY” Which ARE found in the Hebrew texts! And they call this “scholarship”!!!

1 Samuel 10:1

Here again we see an amazing thing in the modern Bible Babble Buffet. The Hebrew texts as well as the Geneva Bible, Bishops’s Bible, the Revised Version, ASV 1901, Darby, Youngs, NKJV, NIV, NASB, all Jewish translations, the Holman Standard.

Here we read: “Then Samuel took a vial of oil, and poured it upon his head, and kissed him, and said, Is it not because the LORD hath anointed thee to be captain over his inheritance?”

But once again versions like the RSV, NRSV, the ESV and this time Daniel Wallace’s NET version all add about 40 words to the Hebrew texts taken from the so called Greek Septuagint.

The ESV - English Standard Version of 2001 - “Then Samuel took a flask of oil and poured it on his head(B) and kissed him and said, "Has not the LORD anointed you to be prince OVER HIS PEOPLE ISRAEL? AND YOU SHALL REIGN OVER THE PEOPLE OF THE LORD AND YOU WILL SAVE THEM FROM THE HAND OF THE SURROUNDING ENEMIES. AND THIS SHALL BE THE SIGN TO YOU THAT THE LORD HAS ANOINTED YOU TO BE PRINCE over his heritage.”

Footnotes 1 Samuel 10:1 Septuagint; Hebrew lacks over his people Israel? And you shall. . . . to be prince”
Likewise Daniel Wallace this time adds all these extra words taken from the Greek Septuagint and then footnotes: “The MT reads simply “Is it not that the Lord has anointed you over his inheritance for a leader?” The (NET) translation follows the LXX. The MT apparently suffers from parablepsis, whereby a scribe’s eye jumped from the first occurrence of the expression “the Lord has anointed you” to the second occurrence of this expression at the end of v. 1. This mistake caused the accidental omission of the intervening material in the LXX, which appears to preserve the original Hebrew text here.”

Sure Daniel. Hundreds of different Jewish scribes painstakingly copying every letter by sight and not from memory, and if one error were made the page had to be written all over again, all somehow made the same blunder in hundreds of copies. Uh, huh. And not even the NIV, NASB, Holman Standard guys agree with you on this one. It’s every man for himself bible versionism gone to seed.

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 Post subject: Re: Scatterbrained Septuagint Silliness
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:11 pm 
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Unabridged bible?

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 Post subject: More Scatterbrained Septuagint Silliness- 1 Samuel 14:41
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:38 pm 

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More Septuagint Silliness


The alleged Septuagint readings are often like so many bothersome gnats that simply buzz around the sacred text with their annoyance. The following examples can easily be multiplied a hundred times over.


In 1 Samuel 11:8 we read of Saul gathering the people to go against Nahash the Ammonite. “And he numbered them in Bezek, the children of Israel were 300,000 and the men of Judah 30,000.” So read the Hebrew texts as well as the NKJV, NASB, NIV, RSV, NRSV, ESV, Holman and NET versions. However the LXX reads 600,000 (instead of 300,000) and both the LXX and the Dead Sea Scrolls read 70,000 (instead of 30,000) but nobody follows the LXX nor the DSS readings in either of these places.


Yet in 1 Samuel 12:3 the Hebrew texts read: “...or of whose hand have I received any bribe TO BLIND MINE EYES THEREWITH. and I will restore it you.”


But the Septuagint actually reads: “or of whose hand have I received any bribe OR A PAIR OF SHOES? TESTIFY AGAINST ME and I will restore it.” (See the footnotes in the Holman Standard or the LXX itself)


Versions like the ESV 2001, RSV, NRSV, and the Message of 2002 adopt PART OF the LXX reading and not the other. They omit “a pair of shoes” and stay with the Hebrew “to blind my eyes therewith” but then add the words “TESTIFY AGAINST ME”, which are taken from the same line of the LXX. (RSV, NRSV, ESV but not the NASB, NKJV, NIV nor the NET this time!).


Then in 1 Samuel 12:8 we read: “When Jacob went into Egypt and your fathers cried unto the LORD, then the LORD sent Moses and Aaron...” So read the NASB, Holman, NIV, NET, NKJV etc. BUT the RSV, NRSV, Message and ESV add words 5 more words - “When Jacob went into Egypt AND THE EGYPTIANS OPPRESSED THEM, then your fathers cried unto the LORD...” all taken from the so called Septuagint.


Then in 1 Samuel 12:15 the Hebrew texts as well as the NKJV, NASB, NIV and Holman say: “But if ye will not obey the voice of the LORD, but rebel against the commandment of the LORD, then shall the hand of the LORD be against you AS IT WAS AGAINST YOUR FATHERS.”


So read the NKJV, NASB, NIV, Holman Standard and even the Message. But the RSV, NRSV, ESV and this time the NET version reject the clear Hebrew reading “AS IT WAS AGAINST YOUR FATHERS.” (“fathers” NIV 1984, “ancestors” NIV 2010) and instead replace it was a reading found in the Septuagint. The ESV, RSV, NRSV and NET version now read: “the hand of the LORD will be against you AND YOUR KING.” - footnote: Hebrew ‘fathers’.


1 Samuel 14:41


Then at other times we have a wholesale rejection of the Hebrew texts and some modern versions add 30 to 35 more words all at once to the inspired text. Such an example is found in 1 Samuel 14:41.


The Hebrew texts as well as the Geneva Bible, RV 1885, ASV 1901, NKJV 1982, NASB 1963-1995, NIV 1984 edition, 2004 Complete Tanach, 2009 Holman Standard, Spanish Reina Valera 1995, French Ostervald 1996, Italian Diodati 1991 and the Portuguese Almeida all read: “Therefore Saul said unto the LORD God of Israel, Give a perfect lot. And Saul and Jonathan were taken: but the people escaped.”


Even the NIV read this way in their 1978 and 1982 editions. The 1984 NIV read: “Then Saul prayed to the LORD, the God of Israel, “Give me the right answer.” And Jonathan and Saul were taken by lot, and the men were cleared.”


The NIV Spanish edition, called La Nueva Versión Internacional, of 1999 reads the same with: “ Luego le rogó Saúl al Señor, Dios de Israel, que le diera una respuesta clara. La suerte cayó sobre Jonatán y Saúl, de modo que los demás quedaron libres”.


However several modern versions like the ESV, RSV, NRSV, NET, the Message 2002 and the NIV 2010 edition add another 31 to 36 extra words to the Hebrew text in 1 Samuel 14:41.


Now in 2010 the NIV has once again been “revised” and they admit that they have changed about 10% of the verses from what they read in the 1984 NIV edition. The 2010 now adds over 30 extra words taken from the Septuagint version and not found in any Hebrew text.


1 Samuel 14:41 New International Version ©2010 now reads: “Then Saul prayed to the LORD, the God of Israel, “WHY HAVE YOU NOT ANSWERED YOUR SERVANT TODAY? IF THE FAULT IS IN ME OR IN MY SON JONATHAN, RESPOND WITH URIM, BUT IF THE MEN OF ISRAEL ARE AT FAULT, respond with Thummin.” Jonathan and Saul were taken by lot, and the men were cleared.” Footnotes: 1 Samuel 14:41 Septuagint; Hebrew does not have “Why … at fault.


As a side note, the 1984 NIV read “give me the right answer” but now the 2010 changes these same words to “respond with Thummin”. Much clearer, isn’t it? Yes, indeedy, the modern day versions are getting better and better, aren't they?


This additional reading of some 35 extra words in 1 Samuel 14:41 are taken from the so called Septuagint. This is not some “new discovery” gleaned from serious scholarship in search of Divine Truth. These LXX readings were first introduced to the unsuspecting Christian world through the very liberal and Christ denying Revised Standard Version committee in 1952 when they rejected the Tradicional Greek New Testament of the Reformation Bibles. This Liberal “Christian” bible committee introduced the faith destroying theories called Higher Criticism that taught that the Hebrew Scriptures had been either corrupted or lost in hundreds of places. And since then, all modern versions like the NASB, NIV, ESV, Holman Standard and NET versions have adopted to varying degrees these same poisonous principles of perversion into their bogus bible versions that nobody defends or believes are the complete, inspired and infallible words of God.


By now you should be getting a pretty clear picture of just how this Magical Mystery Tour the Bible Babble Buffet promoters like to call “scholarship” or the “science of textual criticism” really works. It’s Every Man For Himself Bible Versionism gone wild and nobody is sure what is going to come down the pike in the next “new and improved” ver$ion to soon hit the Chri$tian book $tore$ in your neighborhood.


“He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.” Matthew 11:15


Will Kinney

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 Post subject: Re: Scatterbrained Septuagint Silliness
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:54 am 
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Can someone make something clear to me? Ive been a bit a confused how the Septuagint relates to Bible translation for awhile now.

Is there more than one version of the Septuagint? Is there an accurate one and false one? Or is there another underlying Greek text for the KJV?

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 Post subject: Re: Scatterbrained Septuagint Silliness
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2013 12:00 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:54 pm
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gmx0 wrote:
Can someone make something clear to me? Ive been a bit a confused how the Septuagint relates to Bible translation for awhile now.

Is there more than one version of the Septuagint? Is there an accurate one and false one? Or is there another underlying Greek text for the KJV?


Lots of bible agnostics tell us that Jesus and the apostles supposedly quoted from the LXX and since it differs so much from the Hebrew text, then they say it really doesn't matter what Bible translation you use. The new Vatican Versions often take parts of the so called LXX and use sections of it to replace the Hebrew text. They also use a reference in the KJB Preface where they called the LXX the word of God. And Yes, there are several different LXX versions out there and they do not agree with each other.

There is NO inspired and totally accurate LXX around today. What passes for the LXX is really taken from Vaticanus, Sinaiticus and some from Alexandrinus, all of which date to around 300-350 A.D., long after the N.T. had already been written.

Here is much more about the LXX issue if you are interested

http://brandplucked.webs.com/nolxx.htm

God bless,

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 Post subject: Re: Scatterbrained Septuagint Silliness
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:38 pm 
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Thanks. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Scatterbrained Septuagint Silliness
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:04 pm 

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You are most welcome. God bless

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 Post subject: Re: Scatterbrained Septuagint Silliness
PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:55 pm 
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Will,
Once again we are indebted to you for your work on this subject. I appreciate the time and effort you put into these matters!

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