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 Post subject: Can Modern Versions lead to salvation?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:13 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:06 am
Posts: 24
Interested to know what are the views on this forum about this question?

Can modern versions lead to salvation?

I personally do not believe they can, not because I want to believe that, but because the scriptures teach that, and I believe it.

If you do believe they can, what scriptural evidence can you bring forward?

Please keep it scriptural.

Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. Just because you say I was led to salvation by a modern version or you know people who say they used the NIV to get saved does not mean that's evidence. That is anecdotal and experience. Pentecostals believe they are saved and renewed and anointed by the Holy Ghost, but that does not mean they are.

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[13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.



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 Post subject: Re: Can Modern Versions lead to salvation?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:08 pm 
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John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


People get saved by the truth contained in modern versions; people are led astray by the falsehood in modern versions.

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 Post subject: Re: Can Modern Versions lead to salvation?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 9:45 pm 
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PeanutGallery wrote:
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


People get saved by the truth contained in modern versions; people are led astray by the falsehood in modern versions.

Good answer, I agree.

Donskey wrote:
...what scriptural evidence can you bring forward?

Please keep it scriptural.

What scripture are you bringing forward?


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 Post subject: Re: Can Modern Versions lead to salvation?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:31 pm 
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Hey Donskey that's a real good question -- let's look at your scripture.
I think we would all be willing to hear your viewpoint on it.

You ask "Can Modern Versions LEAD to salvation?"
Well that's kind of a trick question because I reckon many things can "lead" to salvation.

For example, someone might read a biography about a missionary who loves Jesus and that could help lead them to salvation, right? Or someone might read a book or a poem or part of a little tract or hear a testimony or a Christian song about Jesus and that could plant a seed and help lead them to salvation, right?

There are many things that can present the gospel and lift up Jesus and we know Jesus said "if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."

So anyway I'm thinking many things could "lead" one to salvation but of course we know that faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God per ROM 10:17. So at some point they are going to need the word of God to develop a strong faith and that's where the KJV comes in, it is the preserved whole counsel of God and our final authority.

Also -- let's not forget about the role of the Holy Spirit in this point of salvation. I'm thinkin the Holy Spirit can take even a little smidgen of the truth and lead us to salvation with it right? "when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth" per John 16:13.

Now as far as "evidence" you kinda lost me on that one because I'm not sure what type of evidence you consider proof positive. There are a lot of wolves out there wearing sheeps clothing. Maybe you could explain more about the evidence you are talking about.

The problem is many of these new versions flat-out CHANGE OR EVEN DELETE massive numbers of verses and they present a weak watered down rendering of the truth or even worse! :?

Sam Gipp says they can be saved but the modern versions will impact their spiritual growth negatively because new versions weaken the scripture --->

"Can someone get saved if you are using a bible other than the King James?"
http://www.chick.com/reading/books/158/158_35.asp

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 Post subject: Re: Can Modern Versions lead to salvation?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 6:06 am
Posts: 24
PeanutGallery wrote:
John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

People get saved by the truth contained in modern versions; people are led astray by the falsehood in modern versions.


Jeff wrote:
What scripture are you bringing forward?


So who determines which parts are truth and which parts are the falsehoods?

You quoted John 17:17 and it says "thy word is truth" and not "some of thy word is truth and other parts are not" If any part is not truth then the whole thing is a lie. We are talking about the word of God, his word, it's pure, holy, inerrant, infallible, perfect and inspired. Not some of it but all of it. The NIV pertains to be the word of God, but is it? It is either is or it isn't.

Gal 5
[7] Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
[8] This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
[9] A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

Modern versions are either the word of God or they are not, either counterfeits or not counterfeits. They are either scripture or not scripture. If you believe some parts are scripture and other parts are not, then who decides that? You?

Am I to believe that the devil authored all these counterfeit bibles, he decided to leave enough truth in them so people can still be saved? If so then why be King James Only? Let the modern versions be? why criticize them?

I believe that the KJV is scripture and all the other modern versions are not.

2 Tim 3:
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Eph2
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.

How do we get faith?

Rom 10
[17] So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Rom 1
[16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

The gospel is the power unto salvation, so what's the gospel?

1 Cor 15
[1] Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
[2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
[4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The gospel is according to the scriptures. Either modern versions are scripture or they are not. Some would like to say they contain some scripture, which means those parts are inspired by God. I can't believe God inspired any part of those counterfeit bibles. He inspired only one the KJV.

1 Pet
[23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

We are born again by incorruptible seed. Are modern versions corrupt? Yes, then they are corrupt seed.


Baptist1611 wrote:
You ask "Can Modern Versions LEAD to salvation?"
Well that's kind of a trick question because I reckon many things can "lead" to salvation.


Hey Brother. Sorry if you think it was a trick question, it wasn't supposed to be. I don't believe there are many but believe one thing can lead people to salvation. The word of God, the scriptures, nothing else.

Baptist1611 wrote:
There are many things that can present the gospel and lift up Jesus and we know Jesus said "if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

Many things present the gospel? Sorry brother I only know of one, the "gospel according to the scriptures"

Baptist1611 wrote:
Also -- let's not forget about the role of the Holy Spirit in this point of salvation. I'm thinkin the Holy Spirit can take even a little smidgen of the truth and lead us to salvation with it right? "when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth" per John 16:13.

Sure no arguments there, but he will always lead you the the word of God, the scriptures that's where the truth is.

Baptist1611 wrote:
Now as far as "evidence" you kinda lost me on that one because I'm not sure what type of evidence you consider proof positive. There are a lot of wolves out there wearing sheeps clothing. Maybe you could explain more about the evidence you are talking about.

Simply any example from the NT scriptures where someone is saved without hearing the word of God, inspired scripture.

Baptist1611 wrote:
Sam Gipp says they can be saved but the modern versions will impact their spiritual growth negatively because new versions weaken the scripture --->

Great book, use it a lot for my defense of the KJV, but unfortunately when he answers this question he only states an opinion. At the beginning of the book he clearly states that the KJV will be the final authority and he answers all the questions with scriptural evidence except this one. He states an opinion only and nothing else.

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Rev.19

[13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.



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 Post subject: Re: Can Modern Versions lead to salvation?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:03 am 
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Hi Donskey,

Quote:
So who determines which parts are truth and which parts are the falsehoods?

Easy, if a part agrees with the KJB, it's truth. Of course it's easier to just use the KJB and not worry about it. :D

It seems you're saying that if the NIV says you must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, then that's a false statement because if parts of it is false then it's all false. So even where the NIV agrees with the KJB it is wrong?

Does a person have to be able to read the KJB to be saved? You are saying a person can only be saved by the KJB, right? I would argue that a child who can't read can be saved by hearing the truth, even if they hear it from somebody like me who has not been known to be inerrant. I'd say they could even come to salvation through a tract, even though a tract isn't the KJB.

What do you see as being necessary for salvation?
Quote:
Not some of it [the scriptures] but all of it.
You used this verse:
Quote:
2 Tim 3:
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Does this verse say we have to know all scripture to be saved? Do I have to know that Huppim, Muppim and Ard were the sons of Benjamin to be saved (Gen 46:21)? No, it's saying all scripture is profitable, but it's not saying it's all necessary for salvation.

Quote:
Am I to believe that the devil authored all these counterfeit bibles, he decided to leave enough truth in them so people can still be saved? If so then why be King James Only? Let the modern versions be? why criticize them?

I don't think the devil is as simple minded as you make him out to be. He is doing a fine job of making bibles less and less effective over time, and making Christians less effective with less effective bibles. If the devil had removed all truth all at once not so many people would have been fooled. As Peanut said:
Quote:
People get saved by the truth contained in modern versions; people are led astray by the falsehood in modern versions.
I would conjecture that less people are saved through modern versions as they lack the authority of the KJB. But I think the Holy Spirit can still lead them to the truth as Baptist pointed out.

Quote:
The gospel is the power unto salvation, so what's the gospel?

1 Cor 15
[1] Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
[2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
[4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Amen. The gospel which saves is that Christ died for our sins as the scriptures prophesied, and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day as the scriptures testify.

Would you say you can believe and accept that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and rose, and yet not be saved because some other version says so also?

Quote:
1 Pet
[23] Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

We are born again by incorruptible seed. Are modern versions corrupt? Yes, then they are corrupt seed.

Is the "word of God" synonymous with the KJB in this instance? "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the King James Version, which liveth and abideth for ever." ?

So let me ask you; if I present the gospel to a man who only speaks and reads Afrikaans, or can't read at all, would it be possible for that man to get saved? He wouldn't be able to read the KJB himself, he couldn't understand the KJB if I read it to him, and I'm not the KJB.


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 Post subject: Re: Can Modern Versions lead to salvation?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:01 am 
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BTW, I think there are people on this forum who were (claim?) to have been saved in churches using modern versions, and then later came to learn the truth about the KJV.

I think it would be interesting to hear from them. It would be interesting to hear if there are those who only thought they were saved until they found the KJB, or those who are still convinced they were saved.

I think if they confessed with their mouth the Lord Jesus, and believed in their heart that God raised him from the dead, they were saved (Rom 10:9) no matter what version they used.


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 Post subject: Re: Can Modern Versions lead to salvation?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:35 am 
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Donskey wrote:
The gospel is the power unto salvation, so what's the gospel?

1 Cor 15
[1] Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
[2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
[4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The chapter is in reference to the resurrection, not the gospel of salvation through faith in Christ alone.

1Cor 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Cor 15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
1Cor 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

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 Post subject: Re: Can Modern Versions lead to salvation?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Location: Amarillo, TX
Yep - this is a controversial question that has been batted around now for some time.
I agree with Sam Gipp.

Remember, the devil is the master at confusion, chaos, and corruption. He knows better than we do that all he needs is just a LITTLE leaven to corrupt the whole batch.
The only people who buy the whole outright lies of the new age and occults are those who have purposefully and consciously rejected the truth of Scripture. They don't want ANYTHING from the Bible, no matter what version it is. But then again, these are the ones who fall into the category of Romans 1.
MOST people are not like this. They want the truth, just not all of it. How does the devil deceive them? He deceives them by giving them enough truth for them to recognize it as "acceptable" but then mixes in just barely enough leaven to pull them off track.
So yes, a person can get enough truth out of a modern perversion to get saved, but they won't grow properly until they get into the KJV.

From the devil's perspective he has more than one objective.
1. Keep people from getting saved
2. IF they actually get past all of his obstacles, and accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour, then the next objective is to keep them from growing and maturing as Bible-Believing Christians. Hence the modern perversions.
3. hinder Christian MEN from answering the call to preach - pastoring, missionaries, etc. Too many men are too concerned with the temporal things of this world - jobs, savings, retirement, family, etc. - to answer that call. Some are too proud. Some are too lazy. Some think their "calling" is to be an internet guru. (Not accusing anyone here!!! But some people really do think that way!!!).

And there are other objectives as well.....

As a pastor, I often wonder what could be done in Amarillo or America if we could muster the army of genuinely saved Christians, get them under some sound teaching, pull them out of their easy chairs, get them out door-knocking and street-preaching, and making a REAL spiritual difference in our communities and country....I think it would even amaze me! But, they are stuck with the modern perversions, sitting in this big huge mega-churches, learning nothing, doing nothing...The Devil has effectively removed any REAL threat to his plans by immobilizing so many of our troops.
Sure he lost their souls (i.e. they DID get saved) but he won by taking them out of action.

In Christ,

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Pastor Steve Schwenke
Liberty Baptist Church
Amarillo, TX
Psalm 119:45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.


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 Post subject: Re: Can Modern Versions lead to salvation?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:09 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:11 pm
Posts: 45
Here in Scotland UK we have a Prince of Gospel Preaching a mighty man of God who is an evangelist full time.

God has used him to lead very many souls to THE SAVIOUR over the past 50 years or so, and still today.

In his testemony he tells how he was convicted of his sin in the picture house watching a film as a singer on the screen sang the song "I'll walk with God"

He is a KJ Man all his life. PmD


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