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 Post subject: Lord who bought them with what?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:33 pm 
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Deut 32:6 Do ye thus requite the LORD , O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
2Pet 2:1 BUT there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.


I interpreted 2Pet 2:1 as the false prophets and teachers denying the Lord Jesus Christ who bought them by his shed blood and death.

That Calvinist used Greek to demonstrate that Lord (despote) in 2Pet 2:1 related to the father and not the Son.
The Calvinist stated the Father bought Israel in Deut 32:6 which included the false prophets and teachers of 2Pet 2:1.

I reject the Greek game; however, I'm a little stuck with the Father buying Israel without shedding of the blood. But then, maybe that's it; God bought Israel with the created sacrificial animals which foreshadowed the shed blood of Christ which purchased all mankind?

Any suggestions?

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1Peter 1:18,19
redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ


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 Post subject: Re: Lord who bought them with what?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:49 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:13 pm
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PeanutGallery wrote:
Deut 32:6 Do ye thus requite the LORD , O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
2Pet 2:1 BUT there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.


I interpreted 2Pet 2:1 as the false prophets and teachers denying the Lord Jesus Christ who bought them by his shed blood and death.

That Calvinist used Greek to demonstrate that Lord (despote) in 2Pet 2:1 related to the father and not the Son.
The Calvinist stated the Father bought Israel in Deut 32:6 which included the false prophets and teachers of 2Pet 2:1.

I reject the Greek game; however, I'm a little stuck with the Father buying Israel without shedding of the blood. But then, maybe that's it; God bought Israel with the created sacrificial animals which foreshadowed the shed blood of Christ which purchased all mankind?

Any suggestions?
Hi PeanutGallery,

PeanutGallery wrote:
I interpreted 2Pet 2:1 as the false prophets and teachers denying the Lord Jesus Christ who bought them by his shed blood and death.
Yes, I agree.

As we already know, Calvinists can supposedly "prove" or "disprove" anything they want with their word games and mental gymnastics. If they can dream it, they can make the Bible say it.

Quote:
[Jude 1:4] For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Here I believe that the Lord (despote) God and our Lord (kurios) Jesus Christ are the same, otherwise if the only Lord God is different from the Lord Jesus Christ, then wouldn't that be saying that Jesus isn't God, and wouldn't it go against the Father and Son being one?

The word Lord (despote) is not even only applied to diety, but is used to describe human masters:
Quote:
[1Tim 6:1] Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters [despotes] worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. [1Tim 6:2] And they that have believing masters [despotes], let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.
So as it can apply even to men, why should we think it could only apply to the Father and not to the Son?

If the Calvinist is trying to separate the Father from the Son, I wonder if he's on the verge of denying the Lord that bought him?

Hopefully that will help. I haven't really looked to see how Deut 32:6 relates to 2Pet 2:1, but glancing at Deut 32:6 I'm not sure it's necessarily referring to salvation. If you read through the rest of the chapter there are some figures of speech or illustrations concerning God's care and blessings on the people.


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 Post subject: Re: Lord who bought them with what?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 7:37 am 
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Jeff wrote:
As we already know, Calvinists can supposedly "prove" or "disprove" anything they want with their word games and mental gymnastics. If they can dream it, they can make the Bible say it.

I know; it's like a chess game. They have all the chess moves pre-planned. I never plan on winning, only to learn their moves.

Quote:
Here I believe that the Lord (despote) God and our Lord (kurios) Jesus Christ are the same, otherwise if the only Lord God is different from the Lord Jesus Christ, then wouldn't that be saying that Jesus isn't God, and wouldn't it go against the Father and Son being one?
A very dangerous chess move.


Quote:
If the Calvinist is trying to separate the Father from the Son, I wonder if he's on the verge of denying the Lord that bought him?

Yes, at the cost of winning the chess game. A simple reading of the text, shows that the false prophets and teachers denying the only one who can save them; and yet, Calvinists defend their theology to the point of perverting scripture and the Godhead.

But, then again, if Calvinism is true, God meticulously decreed their rejection of the plain text in favour of their theology.

_________________
1Peter 1:18,19
redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ


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 Post subject: Re: Lord who bought them with what?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 08, 2017 2:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:13 pm
Posts: 2290
PeanutGallery wrote:
I know; it's like a chess game. They have all the chess moves pre-planned. I never plan on winning, only to learn their moves.
But then, our King can't be put in a position that can't be defended. You won't find any Grandmasters who misinterpret/reinterpret/mistranslate/rewrite the Handbook.




http://www.fide.com/component/handbook/ ... ew=article


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